As mentioned in the last post, we thought it might be a fun idea to hang a banner on the bus with the website information as we get asked all the time about our project. The new banner arrived since our last posting and looks great on the bus
Progress
After a few work trips, we got some more basic work was done. We caulked the gap between the plywood and the steel side of the bus. This was done so that when we start welding during the roof raise, no sparks will fall between the steel and floor. Even though the floor will be covered, we want to err on the side of caution. We also used plastic wood to fill the gaps in the plywood to ensure the floor is as smooth and level as possible.
Prep work
Next up – marking the cut for the bus and getting to a covered storage area so we can raise the roof in January.
Before that point, we still have to:
pressure wash the roof and bus
load up the roof raise cradles that were built earlier
take out all the windows (again)
take off the emergency escape hatches
take off the doors
unscrew the door posts
remove two of the window posts
grind off all the rivets on the back off the bus
unscrew the AC
drop all the wiring and protect it
get the filler steel ready
pre-cut the front roof of the bus
get the side of the bus sheet metal precut.
A lot of work in the next few weeks! But it will be a fun part of the project! Especially since we are merely a bunch of amateurs doing this 😊
Converting a bus is a slow process. This week we spent cleaning the remaining reflective tape and signage off the side of the bus. After having tried several different methods, using the heat gun and an oak wood wedge seemed to be the only way to easily scrape the tape without damaging the paint. After having the tape removed, we used goo-gone and the plastic scraper to get the glue remains off. Then a bucket with soapy water to clean up the rest. The bus looks a lot less trashy now!
Removing all the gunk
Reflective tape / all Clean
Raising Prep
In addition, we have been pondering how to raise the roof with heavy air-conditioning unit attached to the roof in the back. The coolant lines do not seem to have enough flex to be able to raise the unit 18 inches. To prevent this from hampering the roof raise, we have decided to unbolt the unit from the roof. We built a frame where the unit can rest once we are in the roof-raise storage location.
Always frustrating
Sunday it was time to put the bus back in storage. Lo and behold, the thing would not start. AGAIN! This time it was because we forgot to flip the main breaker after having it parked so the batteries had slowly drained. Sigh. The battery-on-the-side-of-the-bus-jump-start did the trick.
We also removed the remaining rain guards from above the window so it will be easier to undo the screws and make the roof cut in the near future. We will paint them and put them back after the raise.
Next step is putting a bead of caulk between the plywood and the steel side of the bus so when we cut and grind no sparks will fall underneath the plywood and set the thing on fire.
Work has resumed and we are back making progress. We kept the bus in the driveway for the week to allow us to put back the various components removed for the engine repairs. The bump guard was cleaned up and put back and fan coil spindle re-installed.
Welding practice
We also had to replace/repair the engine hatch. This took some time to weld together. Part of that was because of a malfunction of the weld spool and part of it was figuring out the correct weld settings. But at the last few inches, we finally managed to get a good bead. Good practice for when we raise the roof. A little paint and some insulation and it is ready to go for next time we need engine access.
On Halloween, Cindy came up with a few good ideas; first one was to put some lights in the bus during trick-or-treat time. Once it was lit up, we suddenly had a lot of visitors who wanted to see the inside.
Our own version of a haunted house
Which led to the idea of making a banner that we can put on the front or back of the bus that has this website on it, making it easier for people to follow along in the adventure. The banner should be ready next week.
Meanwhile, a lot of time is spent watching the various roof raises to figure out what the best way for us is to accomplish the raise. So many options, we just have to find the most convenient and safe way for us to do it. We also started looking at solar panels and roof decks, since we want to make sure we have those brackets in place before we start on insulation.
Next up is cleaning off more of the reflective tape so we can mark the cut for the roof raise.
The amount of calls and tips we received after the last blog was amazing and very heartwarming! Several people helped us with tools or pointed us into the right direction to get the information we needed.
We got in touch with someone who used to work on Cat engines and someone who used to work at the Pearland bus barn. They helped eliminate some of the potential problems and gave advice on how to start the engine directly from the starter without hurting ourselves. We followed the advice and …
IT STARTED!!!
The sound of success
Yes, indeed the bus started! We drove around the storage lot just to have the engine running and the tires rotating. Even though starting via a loose battery on the side of the bus is not how we want to keep starting the engine, it finally felt like we were getting somewhere! Plus, this confirmed that the engine faults were indeed fixed.
Drawings
From another direction we received the electrical drawings for our specific bus we so desperately needed. We traced and traced and traced wires some more. We noticed a “door open” LED that had appeared during all this tracing and we knew there should be a way to bypass all the door safeties. Door safeties are not necessary on an RV.
Wires, safety, and not all freightliners are built alike
From the very get-go, we have suspected that the lack of starting must be a problem with either a wire or solenoid. We did not want to spend thousands of dollars fixing things that do not to be fixed. After tracing all the wires using the drawings, we finally came to the solenoid we needed to bridge to get the bus started by ignition key at the driver seat. And that without impeding any of the other bus operational circuits!
Any freightliner that is not designed as a school bus does not have the door safety circuits so it was merely a matter of figuring out which wires to connect. (or solenoid to bridge)
The red jumper wire did the trick
We took out the interlock solenoid, put in a jumper wire and – praise the Lord – THE BUS STARTED BY TURNING THE KEY UP FRONT!!!!
We drove it home right away. Now it is a matter of closing the engine access hatch we created, putting back the bump guard underneath the engine and fan coil spindle that we had removed for easy engine access. Then we will be back on track so we can continue to prepare for the raising of the roof. And that’s how one little wire stopped us in our tracks for months on end…
We have had quite a few requests for a bus update. Why has it taken us so long to get back on track? Unfortunately, in a very short time span we had several tragic losses in our extended family and circle of friends. We never experienced this much grief and sadness on a weekly basis during a two-month period. Even living in the comfort that they are now all rejoicing with the hosts of Heaven, the mental impact for those left behind takes huge amounts of energy and does not leave much room for anything other than keeping the girls and ourselves moving forward. Add to that: camps, COVID, and AHG, and any free time we might have had was claimed by activities.
Getting back to life
Now that things are calming down, we are resuming our quest. Once we finally managed to get back to the bus, we tried once more to start it. Of course, it did not turn over. Instead, flash codes 25, 63 and 49 showed up. We are working with the flash codes since we do not have a reader that we can plug in.
Flash code 25 is a boost pressure sensor or intake manifold sensor issue.
Flash code 63 is a Fuel pressure warning
Flash code 49 is an inlet heater relay issue
We wanted to work on the boost pressure sensor code first. Unfortunately, it is impossible to access it from behind or side of the engine. We had to cut a hole in the bench. Always nice to do something like that AFTER having insulated and covered it with plywood…
Plywood, insulation, steel bench and sheet aluminum layers
Not an easy fix
Cutting the hole was not as easy as it sounds and due to limited time availability, it took about three weeks to have the individual cuts complete without destroying anything below the bench. Then we pulled out the sensor from the top of the engine and discovered that the replacement we had purchased was not the same as the sensor we had on the engine. It took two weeks to get the correct part. After that the engine still did not turn over so we proceeded to work on flash code 63.
Next code – fuel pressure regulator
This code can normally be resolved by replacing the fuel pressure regulator. This regulator is placed in another very convenient location: at the back of the engine. Hoping not to have to cut another hole in the bench, we decided to move the air intake line. This was much easier than expected. Even though access was difficult, we could see the front side of the engine clearly. The front of the engine was so caked in dirt and grime that it took us a while to find the regulator. It involved a few more days of research to make sure we would pull off the correct part.
With help from Oma, who had arrived for a two-week visit, we managed to get the grime off and find the problem location.
Ecstatic to be making some headway, we started to undo it (two more trips home for the correct tools). Lo and behold, the part came loose…. after breaking off the attached fuel pressure sensor… AAARGH!! Fortunately, Oma was sitting beside me to hold open the access hatch, which prevented the explicits from coming out of my mouth.
Oma helping to keep the calm, shine her light, hold the hatch, clean and preserve
Perseverance pays off
A few frustrated deep breaths and onward we went, unbolting the entire system. After blocking off and covering the now open fuel line, we took the section home. A little cleanup and reassembly, then back online to order a new fuel sensor. These have changed since this Cat was built so we hope the new version works the same way.
The old and new fuel pressure regulator and fuel pressure sensor
We did spot fuel in the electronic part of the sensor, a common issue with the Cat C7, so a replacement was due but still more money and time spent. We remounted the assembly and put back the air intake line. Re-strapped all the electronic cables and re-tightened all the bolts we had loosened for the easy access.
More delays
We spent a day replacing the batteries in the bus with fully charged ones. Then a day to figure out how to reset engine error codes. And of course, the latter did not work. Meaning we now have run all electrical possibilities and replaced:
Batteries
Starter
Boost pressure sensor
Fuel sensor
Fuel regulator
All of this, plus a lot of prayers and we are still stopped dead in our tracks. And we have not made one step of progress since May. We now officially have reached the point where we need to call in assistance. Frustrating, but we look forward to the moment where we have a purring engine again…
Unfortunately, we don’t have much to report since we are still trouble shooting. We did figure out that while we see many advantages of having a pusher bus, one major disadvantage is that a pusher has extremely difficult engine access. Still, even though we didn’t expect the starter to be the issue, we decided to take it off just to rule it out.
In order to fit between the cooling fan and the engine, we first had to remove one of the fan supports. The only way to do that was by cutting part of the support spindle and push the rod out. We unbolted the bump plate from underneath the engine once the rod was removed. This is a thick steel plate that prevents the engine from getting hit when the bus drives over a big rock, or highway hazard. Clearly that had happened before because three of the bolts that hold the bump plate in place were completely flattened.
Dismantling problems
With those two items removed (this was a two-day process) we gained enough space to be able to disconnect the hot and neutral wires from the starter. That said, since I am right-handed and can I only can fit my left hand in the area we need to reach, so it took several hours to get it done. Then it was time to get underneath and remove the two bolts that hold the starter onto the engine.
Having the bus in a storage space with a gravel and dirt lot slows down the process. Between the wind and other vehicles driving through the lot, dust in the eyes in an issue. Safety glasses do not help and goggles won’t work with the limited space we are working in plus we are dealing with the excessive outside temperature. So in short; are we having fun? No, most certainly we are not. That said, if we get the bus running before we hit the 20 year mark the satisfaction would be tremendous!!
Never give up
Laying on the gravel and dust to remove the bottom bolt from the starter was easy. Fairly decent access and space to move the ratchet. Getting to the top bolt, which is hidden into an inaccessible space above the starter, was a whole different challenge. Eventually we managed to get it off. We used a ratchet with a 3ft extension and loosened the bolt while standing behind the bus and ratcheting inside the engine compartment. It is amazing that getting a bolt loose of a bus part that has no issue, still feels like a victory. How deep we have sunk…
Once the starter bolts were loose, we had to get back under the bus and slide the starter over hydraulic and fuel lines all the way aft. From there we could maneuver it between engine and aft hatch to pull it out. On the bright side: the teeth on the flywheel look excellent end we didn’t see any rust.
The only thing we did notice to be wrong is that the little starter wire clearly had a break in the connection because it did not have to be unscrewed but pulled right off. Could this really be the cause of the problems? We doubt it, but it would be great if it was. And as mentioned earlier, it would not be the first time that a simple connection break is the reason of a skoolie no-start.
Now that the starter is off…
We took the starter home and put it on the work bench for a test start. It runs with light noise, but not sufficient to be an issue. Some of the teeth are slightly warn and so is the core. But all in all it is not a bad starter for the amount of mileage that is on this bus. So we will clean it up some more and then put it back.
We also still have to replace the boost pressure sensor. Problem is that we simply cannot reach it. I am afraid we actually have to cut the bench inside the bus to get access to the top of the engine where this sensor is located. That is a problem for later this week after we put back the starter…
The new batteries did not solve the issue. We have been trouble shooting ever since. Which is very unfortunate since it pushes us way back on our timeline. We have run by every fuse and wire and still did not come up with a sensible explanation on why the bus will not start.
We had great assistance from our electronics guru out of Colorado Springs. He deepened our knowledge and understanding of bus system electronics drawings. It also resulted in elimination of many potential issues that were proven in good order. But it did not get us closer to a start.
What was checked
We checked for loose wires, tested every fuse, checked the ECM, ECU, VIM, VEC, TCC, (yeah learned a LOT about this bus!) fan module, starter, and transmission. We did electrical component checks, tried to jump solenoids the right way as well as the wrong way (getting close to setting a bus on fire, which was no fun but a great heartbeat check) We had a nice battery weld arc because we accidentally connected the positive of one to the negative of the other battery at the end of a very long and tiring day of trouble shooting, destroying the thread of one of the terminals which we then had to fix, and still… nothing.
What we eventually did get is engine faults appearing on the display. The one we are working on now is the boost pressure sensor fault (code 25) and low fuel pressure fault (code 63). Neither should affect the starting of the bus, but we might as well fix them now. Of course, the 63 fault makes sense since the engine is not running.
All this trouble shooting is very educational, but not fun. Especially crawling under the bus in a very dusty and sometimes windy gravel lot does not make for very good moods and positive attitudes.
Why don’t you get a mechanic you ask? Two reasons:
One: skoolie.com is FULL of no start issues. About 95% of them are due to a simple wire disconnects or rusty connections. It is merely about finding out which wire that could be.
Two: skoolie.com is also FULL of regrets. Spending thousands on mechanics who made people replace very expensive components (like the $1000 ECM an $800 HUE or a $500 starter) with no avail, only to discover that $4000 later the problem was a simple corroded wire on a starter solenoid or a starter screw that had vibrated loose.
Another factor is we have no idea where to find someone locally who knows how to work on Thomas pusher busses with a Cat C7. You may understand our trepidation here…
Positive Note:
On a good note, all the inserts for the roof raise are ready to go and they look awesome! We ordered them from Vico Manufacturing here in Houston. They took the sample beam and matched it perfectly! You can check them out here Vico (vicomfg.com)
We have ordered a boost pressure sensor and hope to have better news at our next update…
From the no start a couple of weeks ago, there had not been an opportunity to investigate the new electrical issue. Which is a shame since we really were hoping to get a good start on the roof raise with some help from Holland. But that did not happen.
Older brother disconnecting batteries
After a lot of investigation, jump starting battery, recharging battery and having batteries tested, it appeared we needed to replace the batteries that we bought only a few months ago. So, we went to back to the store where we bought them.
Fortunately, they were still under warranty.
It wasn’t just the ones we have
Unfortunately, when they tested the batteries available in store, they showed to have faulty cells as well. They advised us to go to a different store location, which we did, the next day. One more day added to our timeline.
Batteries at Store #2
At that location they tested their batteries… and they showed bad as well! Mind you, these all seemed to be from the same batch and with the same manufacturing date. In any case, I was referred to yet another store.
Batteries at Store #3
That store only had two in stock, again from the same batch and manufacturing date. Also showed to have faulty cells. Rather strange… In any case, we were sent back to the first store to get our money back for the batteries we bought just two months ago. One more day added to our time line.
Batteries Back to store #1
When coming back to the first store one day later, the manager claimed to have found two new batteries that were just low, but would be fine once charged and that the problem was that the employees just had no idea how to correctly test them. (in three different stores ?!? sounds like an educational issue to me) In any case he would charge them but that would take one day… One more day added to our time line.
Trip 3 to store #1 – same batteries
Next day we went back and low and behold they had two charged batteries. However, there was no manager in the store. Being rather weary at this point, we asked them to re-test the batteries in front of us. First battery passed, no issues! We are getting somewhere! Second one.. failed again. So being done with it we asked for our money back again.
Connecting batteries once more
They stated that they had one good battery and they would give money back for one battery and give us the only working one as a replacement for the second battery. Yeah no. Then they claimed we had already turned in one battery so they would only refund one. Right. With the back of our car open showing two batteries sitting there?!?!
Little more hassle but ended up with a full refund. Then went to the competitor down the street who had two batteries in stock, tested in front of us and found in good order. Finally!
The decision is made – we will raise the roof of the bus by 18”. We were hesitating between just raising the shower area, doing a 12” raise or an 18” raise. But with the AC Evaporator in the back of the bus, we decided an 18” raise would be best. Might as well do it right from the start. An 18” raise will bring the total height of the bus up to 13’. Which is still within State allowance. It will create much more space for our bunk beds and will give proper height in our bathroom.
Step #1 – Supplies needed
That said, we needed to invest in some supplies first. The list started with a welding machine. Once that came in, we ran some practice welds to make sure we are up to the task. No issue there, we both have welded in the past, it’s just like riding a bike. We will need this to weld the inserts as well as the underbelly storage and tank frames that we will need to add under the bus later.
Step #2 – Enclosed storage
We expect the entire raise and re-skinning to take several weeks, meaning we need a closed in storage unit protected from wind and weather and with a level floor so the roof does not collapse on us during the raise. After some research, we found a location near our current storage facility that can accommodate us. We rented a unit on a budget, but only measured the door opening afterwards… It looked big enough, but after measuring we discovered we need to get one of the larger bays since the unit we picked only allows for a 12’ vehicle and we will turn out with a 13’ bus. Back to the drawing board.
Step #3 – Where on the frame to cut for the raise
We removed the rain guard to reveal all the screws that connect the top plating to the side plating. It seemed fairly easy to raise at that level, but the problem was finding curved inserts to put under the raised roof. Also, if we cut at the top, the windows will be at belly level so we would not be able to look outside. Especially once we start to put kitchen cabinets in. So, it was decided to do an under-the-window cut but leaving the first and last windows in place.
Step #4 – Finding the inserts to be installed for the raise
Next, we had to figure out where to find inserts to make the raise stable and effective. After shopping at quite a few steel vendors and metal fabricator locations we finally found a small workshop in southeast Houston that is willing to produce our design of 24 inserts of 30” length. We chose 30” inserts so we can use 6 inches on top and bottom to mount to the existing framing.
Insert Design
Step #5 – Roof Raising cradles
We built ourselves some roof raising cradles. We are planning to put farm jacks underneath them to execute our raise. Couple of straps on it and we will be good to go. With the basics in place now the real work can start ….
Have no fear if you think you missed the update from week #12. We sacrificed a weekend of work on the bus for camping with our American Heritage Girls troop. God gave us gorgeous weather and we had lots of laughs. But that’s about it. No progress on the renovation.
Week #13
Rear Bench Work
We brought the bus home Saturday afternoon after soccer. First, we cut off the bolts that used to hold the rear seat and seat belts in place.
Cutting off unnecessary bolts.
After that, we spent a few hours with Goo Gone to clean the never-ending amount of glue residue that remained on the rear bench. The bench was then covered with the same sound barrier that had been placed on the wheel wells. https://sixwheelsofadventure.com/week-11/
What happens when Ivo goes shopping alone…
Of course, as Darwin dictates, we were just short of plywood and rigid foam board to cover it. So, we went to the store to pick up supplies. Looking at the still exorbitant plywood prices, we only bought the pink rigid board and longer wood-to-sheet-metal-screws. So much fun trying to get that super light 4′ x 8′ sheet of rigid foam from the doors of the Home Depot to the car; just put your feet on the cart and the wind will make you sail though parking lot with a speed that could rival with most sailing regattas. Trying to stop before hitting anything or breaking the rigid foam sheet was a whole new challenge.
Unfortunately, once we dropped anchor near the car, we had to cut the board in half. Otherwise it would not fit in Cindy’s vehicle with the seats up. Might have been smarter and a whole less windy hassle to cut it inside the store BEFORE trying to maneuver it through the windy parking lot…
Plywood solution
As mentioned, plywood is just too expensive right now. In view of this, we sacrificed one sheet of plywood from our hurricane window cover stash. Let’s hope we won’t have to replace it later this year… We put the rigid foam over the sound barrier for added insulation. Otherwise, we anticipate that our future bedroom would be very noisy and hot without it. Downside of putting ½” plywood over the sound barrier and rigid foam is that the wood now looks a little bit like a washboard. We just hope that won’t affect the final top layer too much. Time will tell.
All in all, the finished product looks nice. Next up we still need to fix the lights (see last week’s blog) and add a lot of caulk.
Final cover for engine compartment
Next step…
We are now in discussion whether to raise our skoolie roof completely, partially, or raise the roof just in our shower area. Currently, it will not be possible to stand underneath a shower head in our shower room due to the small overall interior height. Something needs to be done. The advantage of raising the entire roof is that we then also have more space above the beds in our bedroom.
Major downside it that we envision it will add at least two months to our conversion, with the bus being open to the elements in the Texas humidity for that entire period. In addition, there are a lot of pictures of roof raises gone wrong. We don’t have a warehouse so we could do it over several days in perfect conditions. Raising a small section of roof in our shower could be completed in one day in our driveway.
