Converting a bus is a slow process. This week we spent cleaning the remaining reflective tape and signage off the side of the bus. After having tried several different methods, using the heat gun and an oak wood wedge seemed to be the only way to easily scrape the tape without damaging the paint. After having the tape removed, we used goo-gone and the plastic scraper to get the glue remains off. Then a bucket with soapy water to clean up the rest. The bus looks a lot less trashy now!
Removing all the gunk
Reflective tape / all Clean
Raising Prep
In addition, we have been pondering how to raise the roof with heavy air-conditioning unit attached to the roof in the back. The coolant lines do not seem to have enough flex to be able to raise the unit 18 inches. To prevent this from hampering the roof raise, we have decided to unbolt the unit from the roof. We built a frame where the unit can rest once we are in the roof-raise storage location.
Always frustrating
Sunday it was time to put the bus back in storage. Lo and behold, the thing would not start. AGAIN! This time it was because we forgot to flip the main breaker after having it parked so the batteries had slowly drained. Sigh. The battery-on-the-side-of-the-bus-jump-start did the trick.
We also removed the remaining rain guards from above the window so it will be easier to undo the screws and make the roof cut in the near future. We will paint them and put them back after the raise.
Next step is putting a bead of caulk between the plywood and the steel side of the bus so when we cut and grind no sparks will fall underneath the plywood and set the thing on fire.
The amount of calls and tips we received after the last blog was amazing and very heartwarming! Several people helped us with tools or pointed us into the right direction to get the information we needed.
We got in touch with someone who used to work on Cat engines and someone who used to work at the Pearland bus barn. They helped eliminate some of the potential problems and gave advice on how to start the engine directly from the starter without hurting ourselves. We followed the advice and …
IT STARTED!!!
The sound of success
Yes, indeed the bus started! We drove around the storage lot just to have the engine running and the tires rotating. Even though starting via a loose battery on the side of the bus is not how we want to keep starting the engine, it finally felt like we were getting somewhere! Plus, this confirmed that the engine faults were indeed fixed.
Drawings
From another direction we received the electrical drawings for our specific bus we so desperately needed. We traced and traced and traced wires some more. We noticed a “door open” LED that had appeared during all this tracing and we knew there should be a way to bypass all the door safeties. Door safeties are not necessary on an RV.
Wires, safety, and not all freightliners are built alike
From the very get-go, we have suspected that the lack of starting must be a problem with either a wire or solenoid. We did not want to spend thousands of dollars fixing things that do not to be fixed. After tracing all the wires using the drawings, we finally came to the solenoid we needed to bridge to get the bus started by ignition key at the driver seat. And that without impeding any of the other bus operational circuits!
Any freightliner that is not designed as a school bus does not have the door safety circuits so it was merely a matter of figuring out which wires to connect. (or solenoid to bridge)
The red jumper wire did the trick
We took out the interlock solenoid, put in a jumper wire and – praise the Lord – THE BUS STARTED BY TURNING THE KEY UP FRONT!!!!
We drove it home right away. Now it is a matter of closing the engine access hatch we created, putting back the bump guard underneath the engine and fan coil spindle that we had removed for easy engine access. Then we will be back on track so we can continue to prepare for the raising of the roof. And that’s how one little wire stopped us in our tracks for months on end…
We have had quite a few requests for a bus update. Why has it taken us so long to get back on track? Unfortunately, in a very short time span we had several tragic losses in our extended family and circle of friends. We never experienced this much grief and sadness on a weekly basis during a two-month period. Even living in the comfort that they are now all rejoicing with the hosts of Heaven, the mental impact for those left behind takes huge amounts of energy and does not leave much room for anything other than keeping the girls and ourselves moving forward. Add to that: camps, COVID, and AHG, and any free time we might have had was claimed by activities.
Getting back to life
Now that things are calming down, we are resuming our quest. Once we finally managed to get back to the bus, we tried once more to start it. Of course, it did not turn over. Instead, flash codes 25, 63 and 49 showed up. We are working with the flash codes since we do not have a reader that we can plug in.
Flash code 25 is a boost pressure sensor or intake manifold sensor issue.
Flash code 63 is a Fuel pressure warning
Flash code 49 is an inlet heater relay issue
We wanted to work on the boost pressure sensor code first. Unfortunately, it is impossible to access it from behind or side of the engine. We had to cut a hole in the bench. Always nice to do something like that AFTER having insulated and covered it with plywood…
Plywood, insulation, steel bench and sheet aluminum layers
Not an easy fix
Cutting the hole was not as easy as it sounds and due to limited time availability, it took about three weeks to have the individual cuts complete without destroying anything below the bench. Then we pulled out the sensor from the top of the engine and discovered that the replacement we had purchased was not the same as the sensor we had on the engine. It took two weeks to get the correct part. After that the engine still did not turn over so we proceeded to work on flash code 63.
Next code – fuel pressure regulator
This code can normally be resolved by replacing the fuel pressure regulator. This regulator is placed in another very convenient location: at the back of the engine. Hoping not to have to cut another hole in the bench, we decided to move the air intake line. This was much easier than expected. Even though access was difficult, we could see the front side of the engine clearly. The front of the engine was so caked in dirt and grime that it took us a while to find the regulator. It involved a few more days of research to make sure we would pull off the correct part.
With help from Oma, who had arrived for a two-week visit, we managed to get the grime off and find the problem location.
Ecstatic to be making some headway, we started to undo it (two more trips home for the correct tools). Lo and behold, the part came loose…. after breaking off the attached fuel pressure sensor… AAARGH!! Fortunately, Oma was sitting beside me to hold open the access hatch, which prevented the explicits from coming out of my mouth.
Oma helping to keep the calm, shine her light, hold the hatch, clean and preserve
Perseverance pays off
A few frustrated deep breaths and onward we went, unbolting the entire system. After blocking off and covering the now open fuel line, we took the section home. A little cleanup and reassembly, then back online to order a new fuel sensor. These have changed since this Cat was built so we hope the new version works the same way.
The old and new fuel pressure regulator and fuel pressure sensor
We did spot fuel in the electronic part of the sensor, a common issue with the Cat C7, so a replacement was due but still more money and time spent. We remounted the assembly and put back the air intake line. Re-strapped all the electronic cables and re-tightened all the bolts we had loosened for the easy access.
More delays
We spent a day replacing the batteries in the bus with fully charged ones. Then a day to figure out how to reset engine error codes. And of course, the latter did not work. Meaning we now have run all electrical possibilities and replaced:
Batteries
Starter
Boost pressure sensor
Fuel sensor
Fuel regulator
All of this, plus a lot of prayers and we are still stopped dead in our tracks. And we have not made one step of progress since May. We now officially have reached the point where we need to call in assistance. Frustrating, but we look forward to the moment where we have a purring engine again…
The new batteries did not solve the issue. We have been trouble shooting ever since. Which is very unfortunate since it pushes us way back on our timeline. We have run by every fuse and wire and still did not come up with a sensible explanation on why the bus will not start.
We had great assistance from our electronics guru out of Colorado Springs. He deepened our knowledge and understanding of bus system electronics drawings. It also resulted in elimination of many potential issues that were proven in good order. But it did not get us closer to a start.
What was checked
We checked for loose wires, tested every fuse, checked the ECM, ECU, VIM, VEC, TCC, (yeah learned a LOT about this bus!) fan module, starter, and transmission. We did electrical component checks, tried to jump solenoids the right way as well as the wrong way (getting close to setting a bus on fire, which was no fun but a great heartbeat check) We had a nice battery weld arc because we accidentally connected the positive of one to the negative of the other battery at the end of a very long and tiring day of trouble shooting, destroying the thread of one of the terminals which we then had to fix, and still… nothing.
What we eventually did get is engine faults appearing on the display. The one we are working on now is the boost pressure sensor fault (code 25) and low fuel pressure fault (code 63). Neither should affect the starting of the bus, but we might as well fix them now. Of course, the 63 fault makes sense since the engine is not running.
All this trouble shooting is very educational, but not fun. Especially crawling under the bus in a very dusty and sometimes windy gravel lot does not make for very good moods and positive attitudes.
Why don’t you get a mechanic you ask? Two reasons:
One: skoolie.com is FULL of no start issues. About 95% of them are due to a simple wire disconnects or rusty connections. It is merely about finding out which wire that could be.
Two: skoolie.com is also FULL of regrets. Spending thousands on mechanics who made people replace very expensive components (like the $1000 ECM an $800 HUE or a $500 starter) with no avail, only to discover that $4000 later the problem was a simple corroded wire on a starter solenoid or a starter screw that had vibrated loose.
Another factor is we have no idea where to find someone locally who knows how to work on Thomas pusher busses with a Cat C7. You may understand our trepidation here…
Positive Note:
On a good note, all the inserts for the roof raise are ready to go and they look awesome! We ordered them from Vico Manufacturing here in Houston. They took the sample beam and matched it perfectly! You can check them out here Vico (vicomfg.com)
We have ordered a boost pressure sensor and hope to have better news at our next update…
The week started with the bus in storage and three more windows to clean. We washed one a day during the week to finish them up. However, Ivo noted that the wording on one of the already re-installed emergency windows was facing the wrong way. The words “DO NOT BLOCK” should be read from the inside, not the outside. We want to keep this little bit of the original bus feel to our RV, so we took that one window out again. Ivo disassembled the frame, turned the pane around, and reassembled it. That was about a 10-minute job. We did shift the emergency window over one pane from the original position so there would still be access once the beds are installed.
With the last three windows also re-installed we finally can drive around without plywood in the windows. It looks a lot less trashy.
The warning was facing the wrong way
Flooring
We brought the bus home Saturday afternoon after soccer. The first project consisted of screwing down the plywood subfloor with the 2″ screws that finally had arrived. This made about 150 new holes in our pretty clean and filled floor. Ivo checked the bottom of the bus to make sure we would not hit anything delicate, but the length of the screws was just perfect. We used coated screws so they won’t rust away in the future.
The next step was taping the approximate layout of our bathroom walls to make sure we knew the location of our future shower pan and toilet.
Painter’s tape marks the bathroom “walls”
In the section where the shower will go, we have the option of removing the plywood and rigid foam to create a little more overhead space when showering. We did not want to put screws in that section only to have to remove them later. While discussing this matter that evening, we once again tossed with the idea of just raising the roof where the shower will go. Which got us searching for a good and affordable MIG or TIG welding machine. But that is for later date.
More cleaning
Last but not least, the wheel wells needed a thorough cleaning. You may wonder if it would not have been smarter to do that before putting the plywood floor in? We wondered the same thing ourselves. And absolutely it would have been easier. But at some point, we just wanted to see some progress over the spring break and thus focused on the floor first. Cleaning the wheel wells went surprisingly fast, and in the end, it only cost a full day. Most of it was waiting for the Goo Gone to do it’s job.
Once the wheel wells were clean, Ivo put a bead of caulk around them and then installed the sound and heat barrier material that we purchased. It is basically a foamy cushion with super sticky glue backing.
You can also find the same stuff inside the hood of a vehicle engine compartment. With that installed, the bus is starting to look pretty spiffy! The bottom section of the rear bench (which is basically the engine compartment cover) is the only section left to be cleaned before covering it with the same padding.
And just when you think all is well….
By the time all of this was done, it had gotten dark. The bus had to be returned to storage, so we started the engine (yes, we, too, now cringe when we have to write that, because you just know something is going to happen) and heated it up, then switched on the lights and….. saw flashing lights!?! Why were the top lights that we had re-wired flashing?? Not supposed to do that! Seems like we did something wrong in the connections; we forgot that at night those lights are also used as running lights and thus need to be wired accordingly. So as a quick fix, we just disconnected them and drove to storage. That is a problem for another day…
This coming week will be occupied with traveling and AHG camping so we will have to skip a week of the renovation work.
As much as we would love to have the bus in the driveway and be able to work on it every day, reality is we just can’t. So we are doing what we can when we can around all the girls activities.
We continued cleaning windows throughout the week. Ivo would take a window apart each night. I would clean all the parts at some point during the day around schooling and activities, sometime doing school in the garage while cleaning. Ivo would reassemble it and take apart another one for the next day. And so it goes…
Supplies are starting to arrive
We did make our first big purchase for the renovation of the bus! Costco had a sale on waterproof laminate flooring that we couldn’t pass up. It was ordered the first of February and was delivered last week. Since we are a few months from being ready to install it, the girls helped transfer it from the garage to our bedroom for storage.
We were out of town for the weekend so it’s a short update. Let’s see what this next week brings!
We took the windows that were removed last week completely apart to clean them thoroughly. It was a bit nerve wracking on the first one. After all, it IS very hard to find replacements for them. Once the first one was apart, it became much clearer how they are put together. It is rather simple actually! It takes about 45 mins to wash all the parts for one window. And there are 20 windows. Luckily this is something that can be done during the week at home with the bus in storage.
Removing more panels
We brought the bus home over the weekend to finish the removal of the side walls. The remainder of the ceiling supports were removed to get the bus down to bare bones. The side panels are bent underneath the window frames, requiring a grinding tool to get the panels off. All emergency windows had to be removed to allow a grinder to fit under the window frame, since those windows are constructed a little different. We pulled the insulation from behind once the side panels were off. Absolutely amazing how black and dirty it is back there. The bus was covered in black dust after we were done with it. We ended up with several hundred pounds of steel and a bare bus.
Wheelchair track
We were finally able to cut the last bolts on the remaining wheelchair track. Who knew that would be such a long and time-consuming process! The tool we bought on advice from our visitor from Idaho was definitely worth the money. Too bad we had to wait for the tool to cool down after each cut bolt, since that prolonged the completion of this part of the deconstruction considerably. But it worked and that’s all that matters!
Cleaning
The girls started on the cleaning. Even though a lot of the inside of the bus will be covered up, we want to make sure it is nice and clean underneath. N was very helpful to provide the entertainment. She read several books out loud while the girls worked.
Wiring
More wiring was removed from the front fuse panel, which controls the main bus operation. We started the bus, and all seemed fine. Brakes worked as they were supposed to, but now there was no display – no voltage or mileage displayed, no RPM indication and also no speed indication. It seems, once again, we cut too many wires.
Now the hunt for the right wire. We spent the entire Sunday afternoon finding all the wires that had been cut the day before. Then started the process to slowly try to find where they reconnect. And guess what. As it was getting dark and cold, we suddenly noticed there were two wires that had been missed in the reconnection process. They needed to be reconnected to allow the bus to be taken back to storage since tomorrow is a workday and we need our regular vehicle.
The wires got reconnected. The bus became drivable again, and taken back to storage. Now we have to reconvene on the last wiring bits to clean it all up again.
All in all the de-mob is pretty much complete. Time to thoroughly clean and fill the holes in the floor so we can paint it.
This week we did not have much time to spend on the bus. Having the bus at the storage facility prohibits spending an hour here or there when we happen to have a gap in our busy schedule. The trick is figuring out what we can do at the storage yard, and what we can bring home to work on.
The World of Windows
We want to ensure that every inch of the bus has been cleaned and all dirt/germs removed from every crack and crevice to the best of our ability. So, we decided to remove all the windows. Not only do we want to make sure that the frames and rails along with the glass are cleaned, but also that they are working properly and are newly painted. This will allow us to be able to clean the frames and install them with a lot more and higher quality caulk then the standard bus is equipped with. This will prevent leakage in the future.
Popping the windows out is fairly easy. They are locked in their frames with four clips and a bead of caulk on the inside of the bus. So just open the window, undo the four clips, cut the caulk with a knife and pull on the frame. We saved the plywood floor parts that we pulled up last weekend to cut up and reuse as blockers where we pulled out a window. This will ensure that rain and dust are kept out while we fix the windows in our workshop at home.
Extras
In addition to the window removal, we removed some more of the wiring as well as several now defunct switches of the main switchboard. After doing some research, we determined that the inside lights should not run off the bus main batteries. If we’d be at a campsite for a few days, we’d run the risk of draining the starter batteries.
Meanwhile, the flooring for the bus was ordered, as it was on sale. We will be installing waterproof laminate flooring throughout the entire bus.
It is the simplest things that seem to take the longest. Locking a skoolie with so many single pane windows may be a little redundant, but we want to make sure that when the bus is finished, people do not just walk off with our stuff.
Locking the Bus
School bus doors are made of glass inside a metal frame. Between the two doors is a rubber seal that closes off when the doors are shut. We had to figure out how to put a lock on them. Our doors have a small frame at the bottom where the lock would fit. We bought a very nice deadbolt lock for this purpose. To make it burglar proof, we made sheet metal supports for the lock as well. At first instance everything seemed fine. Holes were drilled, lock mounted…. but then it appeared the rubber center seal was too thick to put the receiving end on the other door and make the lock work! Since the bus is in storage and we don’t have many daylight hours to work with, the solution was postponed to day two.
On day two, the lock was taken off again. It was moved to the place it should be (drilling new holes in the door) so the mounting on the receiving door could start. Two broken drill bits later and not enough tools on hand to get the broken bits out of the door, the drill was about to embark on a 31ft direct flight through the rear exit. But…then the thought of having to explain the additional expense of a new drill to the CFO came to mind and thus we decided to just call it quits for the day.
On day three, the two broken bit parts were removed and the receiving end of the deadbolt was nicely mounted on the door. It looked awesome and very clean!!!
However, we discovered that since both doors swing out, there was too much gap between the door and the bottom frame when pulling on the locked door. Basically, you could pull the locked door back and undo the deadbolt by sticking your hand underneath the door and unlocking it…
What a waste of time, drill bits and money on a really nice lock! Sigh.
On day four, a different lock was ordered. Seeing the problems with the first lock, we decided to mount this new lock only once the bus was back in our driveway.
Other Work done at storage
Meanwhile, we kept working on cleaning up the wiring inside the bus. This is very tedious work but needs to be done since there are soooo many useless wires that will be in the way when we run our own electrical system. Each time we have to pull off a ceiling panel to follow where the wires go, we need to undo 120 screws. There are 11 panels in this bus so it is rather time-consuming work. Plus, as we learned last weekend, each time we cut a wire that we anticipate could be connected to the starting lockout we need to try to start the bus and move it ….
Even though our HOA frowns upon having an RV in the driveway multiple times a month, we decided to bring the bus home on Saturday to make it easier to put the newest lock on. This would also give an opportunity to drop off some insulation and ceiling panels that were removed throughout the week.
Weekend work at home
Day five of locksmithing was the winner. Having all the tools close by and a set of brand-new sharp drills may have been part of that. The doors look like Swiss cheese, but the lock is on, and our possessions are safe!
By end of day, all the cheese holes were filled. After that, R helped remove the last of the wheelchair rails.
Then we took out the last two ceiling panels which turned out to be a family affair. This left no one to take a picture of all of us with our hands in the air like we don’t care.
Meanwhile, Cindy spent 4 hours on both Saturday and Sunday removing decals/wording/adhesive from the back and right side of the bus. Slow but steady progress.
All in all, great progress this weekend. Let’s see what the coming week brings…
After months of research on the internet, we determined we wanted a “pusher” (bus with the engine in the back) with a Caterpillar diesel engine (since both Cindy and Ivo had worked on those). Due to commitments back home, we had a very limited time frame to pick out a bus and drive it home.
Our final research took us to Calexico, California to an auto mart that specializes in bus sales. This place had PLENTY of buses to choose from.
The first bus we walked onto was not very encouraging….
Luckily not all buses were in that bad of a condition. This one was much better already. Even though we knew the seats would come out.
Eventually we test drove two busses – one with a Detroit Diesel (Mercedes) engine and one with the Cat engine we wanted.
After several hours, two test drives, and lots of inspection in/under/ around the buses, our decision was made.
N had more fun with “Princessa” the dog, then having any interest in bus shopping.
